NI TestStand Sequence Editor in the Cloud?

[j_dodek]

Hi

recently i have downloaded the automated test outlook for 2014,
a few days later the was an invitation to the discussion group.

https://decibel.ni.com/content/groups/automated-test-outlook-discussion

So now i am in the could, too.

One of ATO's topic is dealing with cloud computing on automated tests.

The artical said that we will see in the next three or five years cloudbased development plattforms.

The benefit of this is that there is less investment in the beginning. On the other hand

we are purchasing only for the software when were a using it. This sounds very suitable.

Do we see a SaaS SequenceEditor in future?

What do you think about this.

Regards

Juergen

[Oli_Wachno]

Hi Jürgen,

personally, I'm still a bit critical regarding cloud computing.

There is this (typical German) concern about security, on the other hand it's the availability ot the cloud network.

We're making ourselves more and more dependent... I like the idea of being able to work offline also. Doing it often enough

For starters who can't afford an own license it might be a suitable way though....

Cheers

Oli

[Elaine_R.]

I could see it being valuable for students / casual users, certainly, but I'd be very concerned by the level of IP exposure required.  It's one thing to have a license-server on a cloud, which I do now with my company's site-license.  But to have files/data movement back and forth to the cloud that contain things like critical test limits / communication keys, TS user lists, etc. would make me a little nervous from a corporate protection standpoint.  On the other hand, if it was done safely, maybe this could act like yet another redundant source tree backup...? who knows.

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Given TestStand's multi-file architecture approach, I'd be curious to know how they'd handle all the customizations I'd make to my Public/ folders and steptypes etc.  Unless it is running 'locally' on the machine, it seems it would be a huge ordeal to get setup...

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I'm definitely not against the cloud in general, especially as Oli proposes, for starting users/training/simple tests, but either it would end up being something that downloaded and ran locally with minimal contact with the mothership after launch to keep my data safe... Or it would be more of a 'virtual machine style' look and feel where you have an instanced machine set up like a workstation at the office (with all drivers and toolkits and Microsoft/ corporate software tools installed), Otherwise, I'm not sure how you'd ever get enough functionality out of the software to be meaningful for mid-to-advanced developers. The first time I go to invoke an Excel API or reference my SAP database to fetch some DUT information out, or tie into my corporate Perforce Instance, I suspect I'd start having headaches...

.

- Elaine

[LuI]

Jürgen,

my projects have a quite tight relation to test hardware (DAQ, adapters, contacting whatever) and often need interaction with test operators. So we need local ressources.

Up to now we have decided to keep as much as possible at the local test stations and make them as independent as possible. We think that not being able to access cloud ressources by whatever reason is not worth the potential benefit - at least for us.

Not to talk about the additonal risks of critical information being send to cloud and discovered by someone else.

[j_dodek]

Hi Ni-TestStand Fellows 

Thanks for your contribution. I agree your concerns. Security is a big deal and this is not a "German Angst" at all.( Is the mobile phone from our chancellor really safe now ?).

The companies mentioned in the ATO have challenging task to make it save or to let us feel that is safe.   It seems you  and i are from generation X ( Preface VIP2014 or http://www.all-electronics.de/texte/anzeigen/54568/Messtechnik-fuer-die-Generation-  Y) and we have to think in this way.

When i am looking at young engeeniers or pupils they are dealing with this stuff in a complete different way. They dont care about security while knowing nothing is safe. Facebook and WhatsApp should be mentioned here. It allows you to communicate with "everyone" and most important: it doesnt care were you are at this moment. The only requirement is an internet connection.

I am a TestStand developer since more than one decade. When looking back, my Sequnces were exclusive developed at the testmachines. Each station had its own editor licence.

Today major developent is done on my office computer. During development there is no need for the teststation maschine whereas the steps it self have alot of hardware and network relation. Nowdays codemodules should use a hardware abstraction layers. This allows to execute your stuff on desktop machines. I only need a editor licence during starting up or maintaining the old stuff. I will get it by my login-name on company's network. I am quite sure if the network is not persent, not very much will work in a state-of-the-art production field these days. BTW I have desigend a TestStand-Processmodel in a way that it "should" run without the network. But I have to be honest there are a lot of parameters where I have no influence. I am really glad about a stable company network.

So as conlusion I like to say we are working on intanets today. So why not working (at home-office) on the internet tomorrow?

Oh dear! this is called "Instustrie 4.0" or as the blue-ones will say "Cyber-Physical-Systems".

Is this another topic or just right here?

I think it is right here!

Regards

Juergen

... and looking forward for your reply.

... the blue ones are welcome, too

[Elaine_R.]

I think you have a very good point Juergen!

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For those users with the luxury of a prebuilt HAL driver framework/steptypes (limited need for the world beyond the software package), then the cloud makes a lot more sense then those of us working at the enterprise/bench level who are spending all our time creating links between TS and non-TS items...

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I for example am one of 2 HAL developers at my office, so ironically most (nearly all!) of my 'customers' could use the cloud and enjoy the benifits of a 'simulation' mode during their development, but I am stuck, since I'm the one qualifying the simulators against the real-thing 🙂

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I suspect that the cloud will be the answer for mid / lower tier users of TestStand, especially once they solve the 'how to incorporate 3rd party software /files resident on PCs'  just as the cloud makes sense for word processing and other single-document/workspace editing tasks. I think those who need close ties to hardware / proprietary data streams will always resist having to do work in 2 places because it's more... well... work!  🙂

.

My only thought with security will be that company IT departments will solve this the way they do with everything cloud related. They'll just to create private clouds within the corporation for employees.  I'd prefer this, personally, to a generic cloud.  It would much easier to set up an idealized workspace with all interconnected tools pre-installed and ready to go... so in this sense I think test development virtualization will be probably closely tied to PC virtualization, rather than viewing a single piece of software in isolation?  TS by itself, can't do all that much, in my opinion... TestStand + LabVIEW + LabVIEW Toolkits + Drivers + Power Shell + Perforce + Excel + Company Database(s) + my visualization tool(s) = WIN!

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I kind of have this already when I remote-login to a spare test-bench... (poor man's virtualization?), but if IT & software vendors could figure out a way to make me an easy to setup virtual one? I'm all for it.

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The real question when it comes to adoption, might be: 'what can/can't a user do, with a cloud-based TS?'  It's a feature issue I think, more than a security issue, for vendors to puzzle over...

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Could a user create new code modules? Does the user package and upload modules created elsewhere?   How would we ensure that code modules wouldn't be 'broken' after placing them on the cloud (missing drivers / toolkits). Could a user link to standard Windows APIs and get expected results? Could a user link to proprietary data stores / non-resident files via some sort of secure pipe?  My suspicion is that without a virtual PC type environment, the # of simulators that would need to be written for non-hardware data access would be quite painful? but maybe I'm overthinking...

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-E

[j_dodek]

Hi Elaine,

thank you for your great contribution! Thats what i what to read here - great!

Regards

Juergen

Link to source document for Generation Y: http://www.cisco.com/c/dam/en/us/solutions/enterprise/connected-world-technology-report/2012-CCWTR-C...

[warren_scott]

Please NOOOOOOOOOO.

I can appreciate the idea of adding abstaction layers so you don't need hardware to do your job, but that's really because hardware often costs $$$ and can't be everywhere (not because I want to be cool and be able to do TS development on my mobile phone while riding the bus to work -- do you really want that kind of connectivity? I've got 3 large monitors for my LV/TS dev work -- I really don't want to optimize for smaller devices).

I don't want to need to develop HAL / measurement abstraction layers just to use TestStand.

Just think about the development process if you use a cloud-based service for this:

• Write all my abstraction layers (no longer optional, you can argue all you want whether they are good/bad, but there's always a cost benefit analysis that goes into whether they get created or to what level of complexity)
• Write my stuff in the cloud.  Guess how it will behave, get it all working
• "deploy" it to a debug system to validate, troubleshoot.
• Find bugs, go back to the cloud, fix bugs, "deploy" to debug system again
• Loop for weeks at a time,  How many times do you think you're going to need to do a TS build/deploy for debug.
• Finally get things working, do a build/deploy for production

I REALLY REALLY REALLY do NOT want to need to do a rebuild/deploy from a cloud based development environment to a local PC that actually has the hardware/connectivity/security/etc to do any actual testing of my code/debugging/etc.

Security is a whole different issue.  I can appreciate a generation shift about security expectations/behaviors, but if you are doing work/testing/development for applications that are actually required to have specific security levels (by government export regulations, etc) it really doesn't matter what people think -- there are laws to be followed.